Breakdown In Civil Order

[bilby]

"We have fire after fire after fire, and now they're putting us in danger. We're all in danger in this neighborhood," said resident Levi Freeman.

Such touching concern for the people whose only shelter was destroyed, and whose lives were actually and directly endangered.

 

[Gospel]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

The Puritans tried to take over Britain. Good, god fearing, warm beer swilling Britons kicked them out because they were religious assholes so they came here.

The UK only founded Australia as a prison colony because the US revolted and was no longer available, which led to the prison hulks filling up beyond their capacity.

That explains some of the Australian personalities on this forum.

 

[ZiprHead]

Being a sanctuary city does not mean ignoring crime, it means not criminalizing non-criminals. ICE does not, in fact, prevent or solve crimes -- it invents them. Decreasing the number of petty non-crimes pursued by the city frees the actual civic police force to focus on serious crimes, rather than being constantly co-opted to assist an incompetent federal agency with its ongoing program of fucking useless xenophobic bullshit.

Karen Bass would rather protect criminals than the citizens of Los Angeles.

It's like you didn't read it at all.

 

[TSwizzle]

While thousands die on the streets of California’s cities, insufferable prick Gavin Newsom moves his family into a $9m+ mansion. Probably to get his kids into a school away from the plebs.

California Governor Gavin Newsom and his wife have moved their family to an exclusive part of the state where all four of his children are now enrolled in Marin County schools. The Democrat, touted as a possible future presidential candidate, will keep his six-bedroom $3.7 million in Fair Oaks in suburban Sacramento home where he will stay with spouse Jennifer Siebel Newsom some nights of the week. But he will relocate his children 90 miles away to a $9.1 million home in Kentfield, Marin County where his eldest child Montana has just enrolled in high school at The Branson School - with tuition fees of up to $60,000 a year.

Daily Mail

 

[Tigers!]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

The Puritans tried to take over Britain. Good, god fearing, warm beer swilling Britons kicked them out because they were religious assholes so they came here.

The UK only founded Australia as a prison colony because the US revolted and was no longer available, which led to the prison hulks filling up beyond their capacity.

That explains some of the Australian personalities on this forum.

Why are you looking at me, mate?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Oh great, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass is going to try to pass into law that Los Angeles be a "sanctuary city" and will not cooperate with Federal ICE to prevent deportations. That's right, the city will protect criminals (the drug dealers, the tourist burglars and gang bangers etc) from being deported.

And, once again, you fail to distinguish between illegals and criminals.

 

[ZiprHead]

Oh great, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass is going to try to pass into law that Los Angeles be a "sanctuary city" and will not cooperate with Federal ICE to prevent deportations. That's right, the city will protect criminals (the drug dealers, the tourist burglars and gang bangers etc) from being deported.

And, once again, you fail to distinguish between illegals and criminals.

Most of the people they consider to be illegals are asylum seekers and therefore not illegals.

 

[Jarhyn]

Oh great, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass is going to try to pass into law that Los Angeles be a "sanctuary city" and will not cooperate with Federal ICE to prevent deportations. That's right, the city will protect criminals (the drug dealers, the tourist burglars and gang bangers etc) from being deported.

And, once again, you fail to distinguish between illegals and criminals.

Well, between "criminals whose crime is 'hurting people'" and "criminals whose 'crime' is 'trespassing on the country'". They are still technically criminals, but then I'm pretty sure I qualify as a criminal for various acts and sundry myself.

The dishonesty in such statements generally is in the part where they would make an assumption that one manner of criminal behavior, despite careful consideration as to reasons and mitigation of any necessary consequences (as opposed to "imposed" consequences), equates to or necessitates also engaging in other forms of criminal behavior.

To be fair though, this is a bit of a Tinkerbell effect, an effect created by belief in it: keeping someone on the wrong side of the law, treating them as a criminal or putting them in fear of the local governance on a daily basis, tends to drive them towards acts of desperation and living on the harder side of town...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Oh great, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass is going to try to pass into law that Los Angeles be a "sanctuary city" and will not cooperate with Federal ICE to prevent deportations. That's right, the city will protect criminals (the drug dealers, the tourist burglars and gang bangers etc) from being deported.

And, once again, you fail to distinguish between illegals and criminals.

Well, between "criminals whose crime is 'hurting people'" and "criminals whose 'crime' is 'trespassing on the country'". They are still technically criminals, but then I'm pretty sure I qualify as a criminal for various acts and sundry myself.

The dishonesty in such statements generally is in the part where they would make an assumption that one manner of criminal behavior, despite careful consideration as to reasons and mitigation of any necessary consequences (as opposed to "imposed" consequences), equates to or necessitates also engaging in other forms of criminal behavior.

To be fair though, this is a bit of a Tinkerbell effect, an effect created by belief in it: keeping someone on the wrong side of the law, treating them as a criminal or putting them in fear of the local governance on a daily basis, tends to drive them towards acts of desperation and living on the harder side of town...

Yeah, I meant "criminals" as in those who cause harm (or risk of harm: DUI and the like), not status offenses.

 

[Jarhyn]

Oh great, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass is going to try to pass into law that Los Angeles be a "sanctuary city" and will not cooperate with Federal ICE to prevent deportations. That's right, the city will protect criminals (the drug dealers, the tourist burglars and gang bangers etc) from being deported.

And, once again, you fail to distinguish between illegals and criminals.

Well, between "criminals whose crime is 'hurting people'" and "criminals whose 'crime' is 'trespassing on the country'". They are still technically criminals, but then I'm pretty sure I qualify as a criminal for various acts and sundry myself.

The dishonesty in such statements generally is in the part where they would make an assumption that one manner of criminal behavior, despite careful consideration as to reasons and mitigation of any necessary consequences (as opposed to "imposed" consequences), equates to or necessitates also engaging in other forms of criminal behavior.

To be fair though, this is a bit of a Tinkerbell effect, an effect created by belief in it: keeping someone on the wrong side of the law, treating them as a criminal or putting them in fear of the local governance on a daily basis, tends to drive them towards acts of desperation and living on the harder side of town...

Yeah, I meant "criminals" as in those who cause harm (or risk of harm: DUI and the like), not status offenses.

I figured you did, but the quote inside clearly steps across that boundary.

 

[thebeave]

Welcome to California!

British band robbed at gunpoint in Vallejo after arriving in US for tour

SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) -- Video shows the moments British band Sports Team was robbed in Vallejo Tuesday morning. The band, which has had two Top 10 albums in the UK, had flown to America just hours before to begin a tour.

The robbers took most of their personal belongings including laptops and their passports. However, they weren't able to get any of the instruments.

The group says while the incident was intense, the most shocking part was the reaction from other people after it happened.

"In the UK, you're incredibly shocked when someone's pulled a gun on you. But then in the US there's kind of this resigned nature from a lot of people, which we find a little bit strange," said Alex Rice, the group's singer.

 

[TSwizzle]

Insufferable prick Gavin Newsom is such a liar;

'California has dramatically slowed and reduced the growth of homelessness – making more progress than a majority of other states, the nation as a whole, and previous administrations,' he wrote on X, formerly Twitter. 'We're continuing to lead the charge in getting people off the streets & connected to care,' the post continued.
But the governor's claims were immediately shot down as official figures paint a completely different picture of California's crisis. The post comes as shocking new data from the Department of Housing and Urban Development reveals California's position as the worst state in America for homelessness, with numbers that dwarf other states.

Daily Mail

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Insufferable prick Gavin Newsom is such a liar;

'California has dramatically slowed and reduced the growth of homelessness – making more progress than a majority of other states, the nation as a whole, and previous administrations,' he wrote on X, formerly Twitter. 'We're continuing to lead the charge in getting people off the streets & connected to care,' the post continued.
But the governor's claims were immediately shot down as official figures paint a completely different picture of California's crisis. The post comes as shocking new data from the Department of Housing and Urban Development reveals California's position as the worst state in America for homelessness, with numbers that dwarf other states.

Daily Mail

No need to read the article as it's making an invalid comparison. X is high is not a rebuttal to the claim that X is decreasing, to use it as such is to admit the claim is true.

 

[lpetrich]

Reducing crime is easy—and we actually know how to do it - "Will the future include more or less violent crime? It depends on whether we rely on prayer, as many politicians are suggesting, or apply proven solutions."

Study after study over the course of a half-century or more has demonstrated the ways in which positive, active engagement with vulnerable populations can significantly reduce crime.

Long-term effects of home visitation on maternal life course and child abuse and neglect. Fifteen-year follow-up of a randomized trial - PubMed

Let’s start with the 1970s. Professor of psychology David Olds identified a large sample of mostly white, poor, young, and unmarried pregnant women in the rural town of Elmira, New York. This group of disadvantaged mothers was divided into two groups: experimental and control. The mothers in the former group received regular in-home visitations by registered nurses during their pregnancies and also after their babies were born, for two years. During these visits, the nurses provided parenting tips, helped the moms access social services, answered questions about health, medicine, diet, nutrition, discipline, and so forth. The mothers in the control group did not experience any of these supportive visitations.

The result?

Compared to those in the control group, the single moms who received the nurse visits were far less likely to become pregnant again, much more likely to become employed, and much less likely to abuse or neglect their kids. Over a decade later, their kids were much less likely to be using alcohol or drugs and—most importantly—were much less likely to have ever been arrested.

Why? Because parents who are poor and unsupported are much more likely to neglect or abuse their kids, and kids who grow up under such unstable circumstances are much more likely to commit crimes when they get older. By providing a simple, relatively cheap, and quite benign intervention—giving single moms two years of support from a registered nurse—the overall well-being of these women was significantly and measurably increased, and the subsequent criminality of their children was substantially decreased. Everybody wins: moms, kids, and society.

Then mentioning some similar research.

Also mentioning Perry Preschool Study | Little Huskies | Michigan Tech

A landmark, long-term study of the effects of high-quality early care and education on low-income three- and four-year-olds shows that adults at age 40 who participated in a preschool program in their early years have higher earnings, are more likely to hold a job, have committed fewer crimes, and are more likely to have graduated from high school. Overall, the study documented a return to society of more than a $17 for every tax dollar invested in the early care and education program.

ERIC - ED385621 - Evaluation of the Quantum Opportunities Program (QOP). Did the Program Work? A Report on the Post Secondary Outcomes and Cost-Effectiveness of the QOP Program (1989-1993)., 1994-Jun in San Antonio TX, Philadelphia PA, Milwaukee WI, Saginaw MI, Oklahoma City OK

The programs, organized around educational activities, guaranteed up to 250 hours of education, 250 hours of development activities, and 250 hours of service each full year from the ninth grade through high school for in-school youth or youth who had dropped out or left their original schools or neighborhoods. Students received hourly stipends between $1 and $1.33 with eventual bonuses. Twenty-five youths were enrolled in each program. Program evaluation undertaken by Brandeis University's Center for Human Resource included respondent surveys and subgroup comparisons for four sites, excluding Milwaukee, where data were not complete. Analysis indicates that QOP members, when compared to control groups, were more likely to graduate from high school, more likely to enroll in college, less likely to drop out, more likely to have received awards, and less likely to have children. Although QOP members were not immune from the many hazards of inner city life, the benefits of the program were made apparent by the evaluation.

Multisystemic therapy: an effective violence prevention approach for serious juvenile offenders - ScienceDirect

In the South Carolina Family and Neighborhood Services program, a large sample of teens of various races and social classes was identified, each of whom had committed a series of violent crimes. The control group received traditional disciplinary sanctions, like curfews and threats of being sent to a youth prison. But the experimental group received visits several times a week from social workers who positively addressed various aspects of the teenagers’ lives, such as their school struggles or health issues. The social workers also helped the teenagers cope with and navigate any difficult family situations. The outcome? In the following years, those who had participated in the program were half as likely to have been arrested as those who had not.

Preventing Violence (Prospects for Tomorrow): Gilligan, James: 9780500282786: Amazon.com: Books

Violence is most often addressed in moral and legal terms: "How evil is this action, and how much punishment does it deserve?" Unfortunately, this way of thinking, the basis for our legal and political institutions, does nothing to shed light on the causes of violence. Violent criminals have been Gilligan's teachers, and he has been their student. Prisons are microcosms of the societies in which they exist, and by examining them in detail, we can learn about society as a whole. Gilligan suggests treating violence as a public health problem. He advocates initiating radical social and economic change to attack the root causes of violence, focusing on those at increased risk of becoming violent, and dealing with those who are already violent as if they were in quarantine rather than in constraint for their punishment and for society's revenge. The twentieth century was steeped in violence. If we attempt to understand the violence of individuals, we may come to prevent the collective violence that threatens our future far more than all the individual crimes put together.

 

[lpetrich]

It is thus no coincidence that nearly all of the states with the highest murder rates – such as Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas – also tend to have the highest poverty rates.

To reduce violent crime, reduce poverty and inequality by providing health care, quality education, job training, affordable housing, and a variety of needed social services for all. Do this, and violent crime will plummet.

Doing that will not end *all* criminality, because they are plenty of people who are very comfortable who nevertheless commit crimes of personal gain: theft and fraud. But it will make criminality much less.

Republican Caught Shoplifting From Target - Newsweek - a Moms for Liberty activist. She stole by ringing up at a self-service checkout only some of the items that she shopped for.

California woman pleads guilty to running $8m cosmetics retail theft ring | US crime | The Guardian - "Prosecutors say Michelle Mack ran scheme from mansion recruiting women to steal items which she sold on Amazon"

A suburban California woman charged with overseeing a retail theft ring that stole $8m in cosmetics from Ulta, Sephora and other stores – before selling them online at Amazon – has quietly pleaded guilty in the case.

...
From her and Kenneth’s 4,500 sq ft home, which had a vineyard and chapel the couple would rent out for weddings, Michelle Mack recruited a dozen women to go to retail stores and steal specific high-demand makeup products “in bulk” that she would then sell on her Amazon store, California state prosecutors maintained.

Mack’s store sold goods at roughly half their retail price, bringing her almost $2m in 2022 alone – and a total of about $6m in the years before that, prosecutors said.

 

[bilby]

How do you quietly plead guilty?

Is the plea less damning if the judge and the clerk of the court can only just barely hear it?

 

[TV and credit cards]

California woman pleads guilty to running $8m cosmetics retail theft ring | US crime | The Guardian - "Prosecutors say Michelle Mack ran scheme from mansion recruiting women to steal items which she sold on Amazon"

From linked CNBC video
Like a sophisticated algorithm is needed to put the kibosh on people fencing on Amazon? Invoices of product being sold. Being an established business registered within the state they are selling from. Penalties for the platform supporting the fencing operation. Instead we get our tax dollars running around playing wack-a-mole and increased cost of product to cover losses due to theft. The last thing government will do is take a financial bite out of Amazon's ass. No. It's always the rest of us getting nickel and dimed to death. That's always the convenient procedure for our political machination to take. Quietly put the cost on the rest of us. All we get out of the deal is the usual news-as-entertainment of brown people in handcuffs and an evil old white woman at the helm.

 

[lpetrich]

How do you quietly plead guilty?

One pleads guilty without issuing a press release or anything similar.